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Aktuelles Kartenmaterial für Wahoo ELEMNT BOLT, ROAM, ELEMNT selbst generieren

@Endurocker Wenn ich synchronisierte Komoot Routen direkt in der Elemnt App oder am Roam auswähle, ist meistens nach 3-5 Abbiegehinweisen ende. Das passiert bei mir aber immer, egal in welcher Konstellation (also Versuch 1-3). Passiert auch mit dem Roam V1. D.h. damit ich Abbiegehinweise bis zum Schluss bekomme, muss ich in der Komoot App das GPX File exportieren, abspeichern und anschließend importieren. Das mache ich über die Elemnt App. Wie es weitergeht, kommt dann auf das Setting im Post #358 an.
 

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Re: Aktuelles Kartenmaterial für Wahoo ELEMNT BOLT, ROAM, ELEMNT selbst generieren
Dann sehe ich da keinen Zusammenhang mit Ebe66s Karten oder Routingtiles.
Der turn-by-turn Bug ist ja leider hinlänglich bekannt.

Solltest du weitergehende Fragen zu den vorgenerierten Karten haben, dann kannst du auch in der Wahoo-Telegramgruppe nachfragen.
 
Ich kann das aber reproduziere. Hab nochmal alles gelöscht und erneut probiert und es tritt erneut auf. Den Turn-By-Turn Bug kann ich wie oben beschrieben durch den Workaround eleminieren. Habe die Routing Ordner von Wahoo und HiDrive auch mittels BCompare verglichen. Es bestehen durchaus Unterschiede. Nicht nur bei den Dateigrößen. Die Routingfiles von Wahoo sind grösser und es sind auch weniger komischerweise. Aber trotzdem generieren sie mehr Hinweise. Ich werde jetzt mal die Mischkonfiguration behalten und weiter beobachten. Telegram habe ich nicht installiert.
 
I use this to generate routing files: https://github.com/gis-ops/docker-valhalla

Maybe I don't understand everything said here correctly, but to my knowledge there is zero interaction between routing files and turn by turn navigation. The TBT is a cue sheet in the tcx file. That at least is 100% sure the way it is on the older devices that don't have routing tiles at all. See for instance
At the time I tried, several years ago, the only service that had actual working TBT cuesheets was Ridewithgps. Komoot had, and reading the comments, still has issues.

It could be different on newer units though. I have had people confirming to me that my new routing tiles work (I can't test myself). I know for certain they do work on a computer. Also the display of the street name you are riding on or that your crosshair is on when panning comes from the routing tiles.

I see you use gpx files which can not hold TBT directions in which case according to the Ridewithgps point to point navigation must be done by the device itself https://support.ridewithgps.com/hc/en-us/articles/4419007646235

Probably not the problem, but you do make sure to clear the device cache and temp folders after switching maps/routing files? It's by far the number 1 thing people forget to do.
You can do so by uploading the map of a small country like Malta to the unit using the Wahoo app, you can immediately remove it again but the app makes sure to clear the caches.
Another way and my preferred way is using the Elemntary app https://github.com/vti/elemntary
 
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@Ebe66
Thanks for your answer and your great work in this project.
I did some further tests and discovered the following (Cache was always cleared):

1st:
I deleted all routing tiles on the roam V2 and then uploaded the GPX Track into the roam via Elemnt App. The result is that the routing list is empty. So in this case, the roam needs the routing tiles to generate the TBT directions.

2nd:
now i downloaded the original maps and routing tiles for bavaria via the elemnt app to the roam. I took the same GPX Track from the 1st try and imported it. Now the TBT directions are genereted.

3rd:
again, I deleted all routing tiles and map tiles on the roam and downloaded the Germany Map and Routing Tiles from the HiDrive to the roam, took the GPX Track from the 1st try and imported it again. TBT directions are genereted again, BUT they are slightly different to the directions in 2nd try and they are not a 100% correct and less than in 2nd try.

Table of the directions:
2nd try3rd try
FortsetzenFortsetzen
SchXXXstr.SchXXXstr.
DoXXXßeFuXXXe
DXXX8Rechts abbiegen
DXXX8Rechts abbiegen
1. Ausfahrt Kreisverkehr
WeXXXr.
BäuXXX Str.BäuXXX Str.
AlXXXgAlXXXg
AnkunftAnkunft

4rd:
again, I deleted all routing tiles and map tiles on the roam and then downloaded the original maps and routing tiles for bavaria via the elemnt app to the roam. Deleted the original map files and uploaded the map files from the HiDrive to the wahoo, took the GPX Track from the 1st try and imported it again. TBT directions are genereted again and look like in the 2nd try.

The TBT directions from the 2nd and 4rd try are for me the correct ones. When I drive the route with this directions, everything is fine. Do I drive the route with the directions from the 3rd try, this feels bad.

So for me, it seems that the roam has some problems with the routing tiles from the HiDrive.

BR
Thomas
 
Ebe66 schrieb:
I use this to generate routing files: https://github.com/gis-ops/docker-valhalla

Maybe I don't understand everything said here correctly, but to my knowledge there is zero interaction between routing files and turn by turn navigation. The TBT is a cue sheet in the tcx file. That at least is 100% sure the way it is on the older devices that don't have routing tiles at all. See for instance
At the time I tried, ...
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A good summary, only some small addition, which concerns the older Wahoo devices (Elemnt and Bolt V1):
If you want to upload routes manually to the device (either directly via USB cable or via import in the Android Elemnt app), then the Fit File Format (Fit Course File) is recommended.

As of today, TCX- and GPX- files with embedded cue sheet instructions still not all turn instructions are recognized. I've made a few tests the last two weeks because I wrote a GPX route file to FIT Course file converter and there's still a problem regarding sharp, slight turn commands at TCX and GPX files.

More infos (without any doubt, Henk is a real expert regarding Wahoo Bikecomputer internas):
https://groups.google.com/g/wahoo-elemnt-users/c/976XvMJfvx0/m/KUQDXnBiBAAJ
Maybe Wahoo will change that in the future, but until today it was/is not possible for me to get Sharp/Slight turn instructions to the Bolt via TCX/GPX file import.
 
Tommy75 schrieb:
So for me, it seems that the roam has some problems with the routing tiles from the HiDrive.
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
Thanks for the clear description. So routing does work but the results are different. I'm going to try and have a look at this because routing tiles are quite different to map tiles. The only Wahoo thingy I have that my valhalla builder config is based on is the routing-config.json file in the firmware. Seeing that you get different results with one firmware, the difference should be on the build side.
 
Ebe66 schrieb:
So routing does work but the results are different.
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Yes, you are right.

FYI, i am using the latest firmware version on the roam V2.

ELEMNT ROAM WC31-15784 - 22 March, 2023

  • Improved: GPS performance in weak signal areas
  • Improved: Accuracy of battery percentage
  • Improved: GPS chip power consumption

Thanks for your great support. If I can support you, please let me know.

I'm curious to see what your test reveals.

BR
Thomas
 
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Tommy75 schrieb:
I'm curious to see what your test reveals.
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
Well, there appears to be very little on the routing tile generation side to configure, let alone something that would influence exits on roundabouts. There is another thing that can be the cause, modifications made to openstreetmaps. would it be possible to pm me the gpx file or the location of the roundabout?
Did you also look at the results of another gpx file maybe?
 
Yes, I did it with 3 GPX Tracks. The result was always the same. Routing worked but, it was different and for me more incorrect than with the original routing tiles. Of course, I try to pm the tracks to you.
 
Now I played a little bit with the Zoom Levels in vtm-elemnt.xml from the HiDrive and discovered the following:

zoom-min=14 is set for example for bakery. But I can see bakeries only at 100m and below. 14 should be at 200m if i remember ? When I change the value to 13, nothing happens. The behavior is similar at other POI's, too.

Do I understand something wrong here ?
 
Tommy75 schrieb:
Do I understand something wrong here ?
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
Sorry, but yes ;-) Nobody really knows what zoom level corresponds too which x meter scale on the device. There are some good assumptions out there but no certainties. It's all about screen resolutions and the scale line drawn and the "zoom" step made. A zoom step on the device does not 100% correlate to a full zoom step on osm. ie going from 100 meter to 200 meter might not take you from zoom 14 to 13 (or whatever) it might be 13.5. You need a program like cruiser on the computer that can display the actual zoom level used to be sure.
I tried, again, to make a x meter to zoom level table 1-2 weeks ago and, again, failed, the levels of the device are just not the same as full zoom levels.
Besides that there are two things that determine if a poi (or whatever) is displayed. The last one of those is the theme, the first that overrules the theme is the tag-wahoo.xml file used when rendering the actual maps.
In case of the bakery, the tag-wahoo file says it should only be displayed from zoom level 17 upwards while the theme says from level 14 upward (for basically all poi's). Atm's for example which are at the same zoom levels in both files do show up for me on my poor old bolt 1 on the 200m scale which might be 100 m on your higher resolution device. The 14 in the theme is somewhat of a "catch all" sort of thing, you really would not want bakeries to show up on zoom level 14. You would have a hard time seeing anything but bakeries.
(hope it still makes sense, I lost my edit and typing on a monday morning at 1:30 is "no good" for me)
 
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Endurocker schrieb:
Der gute Ebe66 hat uns einen Satz neue Karten und Routing Daten generiert.

hidrive

Alle Karten enthalten Höhenlinien und somit sind die Karten teilweise deutlich größer geworden.

Vielen Dank Ebe66!
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Klasse Theme - Gute Arbeit @Ebe66

Ich finde es gut, dass nun auch Moore, Strände, Parks, Militärgelände etc. farblich abgesetzt sind und die feinen Höhenlinien sind doch ein Bereicherung und helfen bei der Orientierung. :daumen:
 
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Well this turned out to be a rabbit hole - I learned about custom maps being available some days ago and have enjoyed updating my Bolt V2 maps and routing tiles with the latest HiDrive version.

I would really like to have certain POIs showing on higher zoom levels (fuel stations, bakeries should show starting at ~2km). Reading this:
Ebe66 schrieb:
Besides that there are two things that determine if a poi (or whatever) is displayed. The last one of those is the theme, the first that overrules the theme is the tag-wahoo.xml file used when rendering the actual maps.
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
Tells me that tag-wahoo.xml needs to be adapted, which seems to be included inside the map files.

How would I approach this, do I need to re-create the maps myself with wahooMapsCreator? Is there an easy way to create the same maps as I can find in the HiDrive, with the latest updates on elevation contours etc.?
 
whu schrieb:
Tells me that tag-wahoo.xml needs to be adapted, which seems to be included inside the map files.
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
Nein. Nimm dir einen Theme wie z.B.

https://github.com/zenziwerken/Bolt2-Mapsforge-VTM-Rendertheme
und pass die Datei kurzerhand an.

whu schrieb:
Is there an easy way to create the same maps as I can find in the HiDrive, with the latest updates on elevation contours etc.?
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
Das ist doch exakt das Thema, um das es hier geht.
Die bereits vorgenerierten Karten von Ebe66 sind einfach sein freundliches Entgegenkommen.
Grundsätzlich geht es hier um das Tool wahoomapscreator von treee111.

Also vorne anfangen und schlau machen. Fragen entweder hier stellen oder in der oftmals zitieren Telegramgruppe.
 
Bitte beachte unsere Verhaltensregeln beim Antworten. Danke 🙂
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